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Where Helo has sex and some other stuff happens.

- Six Degrees of Separation
- Flesh and Bone
- Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down

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marymary
Dec. 1st, 2006 08:59 pm (UTC)
I love the opening shot. From wide and far away, we pull in on the fleet, and right through the window into Galactica, Baltar’s lab. Through his eye into his microscope, looking at (what I assume are ) blood cells. “I don’t see the hand of God in here.” ha.

I have to say, my favorite quality of Baltar’s is his snarky disdain for the God stuff. And, lest you tell me he comes around to faith in this episode, I direct you to the last scene. He runs up the stairs after NakedSix, unbuckling his belt. “God’s Will Be Done!”
marymary
Dec. 1st, 2006 09:00 pm (UTC)
Something to consider, maybe later. ChipSix has a complementary relationship with Shelly Godfrey here. She gets mad and leaves, Shelly shows up to accuse Baltar. Baltar repents, ChipSix shows up, Shelly disappears. Something like this happens at least one other time in the series.

Don’t you just know, when you see Shelly coming onto Bill, that she’s seriously misunderstood her target? He immediately realizes there’s something wrong with her and has her tailed. I’m not sure how I feel about the scene. It says that Six/Cylons are fallible and don’t necessarily understand humans like they think. Ok. It’s just that it undercuts Six a bit. We’re supposed to believe that the Cylons, and Six in particular, are brilliant and in control. This was such a lame mistake that I wasn’t sure I liked it. It had no bearing on the framing of Baltar, but still.

Now, maybe Cylons tried and failed to get rid of Baltar for whatever reason. Maybe he knows too much about Cylons through knowing Six, and they just want him executed. (Later we learn that it’s not common knowledge among Cylons who Baltar is, whether or not he survived or that he’s on Galactica. But maybe a few Cylons in charge do know this and are trying to get rid of him, just in case.)

OR they intended the scheme to fail (like ChipSix implies), and for Baltar’s position to be bolstered. IF that’s what happened then why? Why would they want Baltar alive and powerful? Either because ChipSix is actually an agent who is manipulating Baltar and Shelly was part of that plan. Or because they know he’s usable in the future. They could manipulate him in the future, using a Six, so they want him in a position of power.

But here’s one problem with that. If Shelly was on a mission for the Cylons, then she knew her target (Baltar) and his history with Caprica Six. So why did she keep up her act when she was alone with him in the bathroom? Why didn’t she say, “Yeah, you like the package? I thought so. The look on your face in CIC was priceless. I am so gonna take you down, little man.”

She could be a sleeper – a Cylon who believes she’s human and is honestly trying to right a wrong. But that means she doesn’t know about Caprica Six’s role in the holocaust. And then why/how does she disappear?

Hmm. Anyway. Whatever the reason, the Cylons’ actions have twice improved Baltar’s position in the fleet. First Doral turns up. Then he’s found innocent after being accused by a Cylon.
amycurl
Jun. 4th, 2007 11:20 pm (UTC)
We’re supposed to believe that the Cylons, and Six in particular, are brilliant and in control. This was such a lame mistake that I wasn’t sure I liked it.

I think that they're very smart about some things. But knowledge of all human behavior is not one that I've been sold on by this episode.

Because they only made 12 models (is that 12 human models or 12 including the mechanical ones and the raiders?,) they've basically made the assumption or the conclusions that there are a limited number of human "types." Six is one of those types, Sharon--the spunky, girl-next-door--is another. To me, it says they've missed a lot of the complexity of the human psyche that they've attempted to replicate.

Just because Six was so good with Baltar, who is pretty much a completely different type of guy than Bill, it makes sense. They sent Six to do a job that perhaps another type might have done better?
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tomfoolery815
Dec. 1st, 2006 09:11 pm (UTC)
I have to say, my favorite quality of Baltar’s is his snarky disdain for the God stuff. And, lest you tell me he comes around to faith in this episode, I direct you to the last scene. He runs up the stairs after NakedSix, unbuckling his belt. “God’s Will Be Done!”
I don't know. I took his prayer and declaration of faith in the cell as sincere. Maybe it's more of Baltar's famed capacity for self-preservation. But it worked. Chip Six came back and Shelley Godfrey disappeared.

And the part that doesn't gibe with my thinking he was sincere was this: Accepting God means a resumption of Chip Sex. He declares his faith, Chip takes her clothes off. But then that's tied to my thinking of most of the major RL religions not wholeheartedly endorsing casual sex. :-)

Baltar asks her if getting him to see it her way was the whole point of the ... "exercise," I think he calls it ... as she's removing her dress. I agree that, at that moment, he's done asking why. :-)
tomfoolery815
Dec. 1st, 2006 09:30 pm (UTC)
I like the choice of the name Shelley Godfrey. Because of course it has God in it, and then it can be pronounced "God free." Not sure what it means; I'm guessing it was just a bit of fun by the writers.

Don’t you just know, when you see Shelly coming onto Bill, that she’s seriously misunderstood her target?
Totally. That's what tips him off. She's getting closer, seductively, and he turns and gives her a look far, far from "Kiss me."

This was such a lame mistake that I wasn’t sure I liked it. It had no bearing on the framing of Baltar, but still.
Good point. Not unlike having Jan Levinson disclose who the convict in the office is. :-) I couldn't resist. Maybe TPTB, in both instances, were foresaking logic for the sake of telling a story. Which doesn't excuse it from two such smart shows.

So why did she keep up her act when she was alone with him in the bathroom?
I had been interpreting Shelley Godfrey as Chip Six in disguise ... somehow. She's had enough of his blasphemy, she disappears. Shelley Godfrey appears, in physical, visible-to-everybody form; also a Six, obviously, but I was -- while attempting to discard my Season 3 knowledge for the moment -- thinking that, given that Chip Six exists primarily in his head, the disappear/appear moments were directly related. And Baltar's mind is so thoroughly blown by this that he discards any thought that Shelley is Chip in disguise.

Here's my further interpretation: The Cylons find Baltar useful, but they'd find him more useful if he shared their faith. So this is Chip's by-any-means-necessary mission (accepting for the moment that she is not just a Baltar fantasy); when she's had enough of the blasphemy, the Cylons execute a new phase of the plan: Chip goes away, and here's Shelley Godfrey in physical form, with doctored evidence to frame Baltar. He professes faith. Somehow, they're aware of this. He's exonerated, and then off to unbuckle his belt in pursuit of the naked Victoria's Secret model.
marymary
Dec. 1st, 2006 09:42 pm (UTC)
Shelly on a mission, having full knowledge of Caprica Six and Baltar's involvement --- that makes sense. But then why does Shelly seem not to know Baltar? Even when they're alone together? That's my problem. Maybe to confuse him more? Whether or not she recognizes him, she's presented evidence, so he's equally screwed. She would know that he knew Caprica Six and that he knows she's a Cylon. So why not drop the act?

Somehow, they're aware of this.
ha. It always comes down to something like this. 1) It would have to be that ChipSix is an agent of the Cylons. An actual person who exists and can communicate information back to the Cylons. 2) We're probably at the end of our rope here, canon-wise. I don't have an answer on ChipSix, and I've watched all 3 seasons. :)
marymary
Dec. 1st, 2006 09:33 pm (UTC)
But then that's tied to my thinking of most of the major RL religions not wholeheartedly endorsing casual sex. :-)

Yeah, I'm quite sure that the Cylons' God just loves the hell out of casual sex. Transcendent experience, enjoying God's gifts, whatever. I don't think they have a problem with it.

But it worked. Chip Six came back and Shelley Godfrey disappeared.

Right, if we assume that they are linked through a Cylon plot, which serves God. In that case, God or the Cylons saved him and sent ChipSix back. If ChipSix is a figment of his imagination, then she comes back because he believes she would think he's done the right thing and therefore he deserves to be forgiven.

From his perspective, it's like the "foxholes" thing you referenced. "Ok, God, if you get me out of this then I'll believe in you." That's a pretty weak conversion. I do think it was totally false and mercenary, but even if he was sincere, how sincere can Baltar be when his life is in the balance? You're right, his religion is self-preservation.
tomfoolery815
Dec. 1st, 2006 11:33 pm (UTC)
But then why does Shelly seem not to know Baltar ... why not drop the act?
To confuse him, I think. It's all, seemingly, a plot by the Cylons to get him to convert. He needed to feel that he was utterly without help, to think that Shelley knew nothing about him.

Yeah, I'm quite sure that the Cylons' God just loves the hell out of casual sex. Transcendent experience, enjoying God's gifts, whatever. I don't think they have a problem with it.
Quite the contrary: It's Baltar's reward for seeing it their way. And down on Caprica, Sharon obviously has no issues, faith-wise, with getting intimate with Helo. I know it's for the mission, but if it were against their faith you'd think it wouldn't have made her spine glow. :-)

If ChipSix is a figment of his imagination, then she comes back because he believes she would think he's done the right thing and therefore he deserves to be forgiven.
(Un-italics within italics. Twisty. :-) )

Well, when you put it that way -- and I agree that it would have to be this way -- it pushes me even further from the idea that she's a figment of his imagination. If only because what he hears from Chip Six about the Cylons' faith matches up with what the other Cylons say about their faith. He'd heard very little of it before the Cylon attack, if I recall the miniseries correctly. (Do I?)

Either way -- figment or Cylons-send-Chip-back -- he's so adept at telling people what they want to hear that he's convinced Figment Chip or Chip and the other Cylons of the sincerity of his profession of faith. As I say, I believe more and more that she's real. Real in his head. :-)

From his perspective, it's like the "foxholes" thing you referenced. "Ok, God, if you get me out of this then I'll believe in you." That's a pretty weak conversion. I do think it was totally false and mercenary, but even if he was sincere, how sincere can Baltar be when his life is in the balance? You're right, his religion is self-preservation.
You've convinced me. :-) He does what he has to do to survive.
marymary
Dec. 2nd, 2006 03:48 am (UTC)
Ok, I've had some wine and I'd like to talk about Helo and Sharon. Guh.

Helo: “I knew what was going on. And I respected it --- your feelings, his feelings. But I would have done anything to change places with him.” I love how he has to make it clear that he respects her and Chief. So Helo. He doesn’t just go for it --- “Hey, it’s wartime, baby. We’re in the jungle in the sexy, sexy rain. We can’t help ourselves!” He has to bring up the boyfriend, and say that he’ll keep his jumpsuit on if she wants. *sigh*

The sex sequence, my god. First, I love the intercut Boomer and Sharon. And the poundy drums have never been used to better effect. Plus, not for nothin’, but Tamoh Penikhett is a good kisser. You can tell by watching. Some hot actors really aren’t and some are (BW) and he’s one of them.

C, you linked me to that TP fansite and there was an interview with him. Somebody asked, “So on Caprica, when you were with Sharon. Did you notice something was weird about her when her spine started glowing, or did you just think you were doing really great?” He laughs.
ok_with_that
Dec. 3rd, 2006 06:01 pm (UTC)
OK, so I'm casting about for where to begin commenting on this episode and although it's too early for wine, I thought, "Why not start *here?*" :)

Impossible not to adore Helo. Just *adore* him. Take that however you'd like. :)

Cuz yeah, *sigh*

The sex sequence. Um, yeah. *Guh* may be as eloquent as I can get on that, for the moment. I need to re-watch...

The intercut between Boomer and Sharon was a lovely way to ratchet up the tension. (If I can divorce it from the sex, I suspect it also might say something about Six and Shelley, and the different experiences of Cylons of the same model. More on which elsewhere. :)

Poundy drums speak volumes. Say it all, really. :)

And then there's this:

Plus, not for nothin’, but Tamoh Penikhett is a good kisser. You can tell by watching. Some hot actors really aren’t and some are (BW) and he’s one of them.

Confession: One of the things I find sexiest about BW and his kisses? His closed eyes.

I recognize canon could only go so far, and this puts me, when I choose to think about it, squarely in the place of voyeur as opposed to alter-ego participant, but really, I have no say in the matter, so I'm (reluctantly) OK with that. I'll take what I can get. In a way, it's a bonus. :)

But I love how... gentle and vulnerable and loving that man is with his eyes closed (is it the long lashes? dunno), and that's part of what makes him (and so Josh) sexy in my head.

And yes, Tamoh-as-Helo (I somehow can't reduce him to TP here) has it too. Just that first moment, as Sharon pulls him toward her and he closes his eyes and turns his head into the kiss... Yeah. Some are (BW), and he's one of them. :)

He laughs.

Hee. :)
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tomfoolery815
Dec. 2nd, 2006 06:11 am (UTC)
He has to ... say that he’ll keep his jumpsuit on if she wants. *sigh*
Funny, I don't remember him saying that ... ;-)
marymary
Dec. 2nd, 2006 06:09 pm (UTC)
The scene in the bathroom between Baltar and Gaeta was so hilarious! Baltar's whispering the whole time, but what he's saying -- it's like they're chatting over afternoon tea.
tomfoolery815
Dec. 2nd, 2006 06:36 pm (UTC)
The scene in the bathroom between Baltar and Gaeta was so hilarious!
Yes!

BALTAR: How's it going over there ...
GAETA: Ummm ...
BALTAR: In the lab, of course.

And, as his flattery seems to not be working on Gaeta, Baltar becomes progressively more frantic, but maintains the stage whisper. :-) I have come to see Baltar, as played by JC, as the comic relief. I start to chuckle the moment I see him now. :-)
tomfoolery815
Dec. 2nd, 2006 06:46 pm (UTC)
And I am convinced that I'm in tune with Mary McD's acting now. (No Roslin icon, you'll all just have to look at Lee some more.)

In "Litmus," just after she finishes her statement about Doral and before she takes questions, she removes her glasses. I do it when I'm stepping out of the car in the middle of a rainstorm; I think she does it because she knows the storm is about to hit.

And I love this moment with Doc Cottle.
LAURA: ... just do it.
COTTLE: ... not going to be able to hide what you're going through.
("West Wing" in space, indeed.)
But when Cottle says that, there's that sad, sweet smile.

But the dash of creme de cacao, my friend, is when she rolls up her sleeve, and Cottle says it's "not that kind of shot." She looks upward, and turns her head ever so slightly. Brilliant in its subtlety: A dignified woman about to be subject to a most unpresidential indignity. :-)
tomfoolery815
Dec. 3rd, 2006 06:59 pm (UTC)
Well, I promised Christina I'd respond if she posted. But my thoughts about the wonders of Helo :-) are more of the "If we were friends, I know he'd have my back" variety. :-)

More seriously ... Helo is totally Dan Rydell, all "I will not interfere in another man's marriage." Which is thoroughly admirable, and gets him champagne in the suite at the St. Regis.

Except that, at this point, it's got nothing to do with why this Sharon is having sex with him. He could've asked her about her favorite aspect of flying the Raptor, the "mission" was going to happen.

That being said ...

Poundy drums speak volumes. Say it all, really. :)
Word. :-) Sharon's response, and responses, don't lead one to think that it's strictly business. Both Grace Park and Tahmoh Penikett convincingly act the part of people who aren't acting. :-)
tomfoolery815
Dec. 3rd, 2006 07:47 pm (UTC)
Sorry, that should read "gets him champagne in the suite at the St. Regis, even though that wasn't his intent." He was being a stand-up guy. But what resulted was something he obviously hoped to have happen, anyway. :-)
ok_with_that
Dec. 3rd, 2006 08:04 pm (UTC)
Faced with Colin, it's a little like what one might have hoped Josh would have said to Donna, in Germany, had he, well, been a different guy. ;)

Or, to bring a fic-bitch to it:

Had he been, you know, *not him.* ;)
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marymary
Dec. 4th, 2006 12:33 am (UTC)
it's got nothing to do with why this Sharon is having sex with him

Absolutely. However, it might have something to do with why she falls in love with him. ;)
tomfoolery815
Dec. 4th, 2006 12:45 am (UTC)
I know. :-) Hence, the "at this point." ;-)
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marymary
Dec. 4th, 2006 12:35 am (UTC)
COTTLE: ... not going to be able to hide what you're going through.
("West Wing" in space, indeed.)


I hadn't even thought of that! Which is why we have these little talks, I guess. :)
ok_with_that
Dec. 4th, 2006 03:28 am (UTC)
Yes, nice catch, Tommy. :)

I don't think I want to know what it meanst that I look at Cottle, with his white coat and his cigarette, and his eyebrows and his slightly snarky delivery, and see Columbo.

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