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Battlestar Galactica: The Mini-Series

Hey there, Battlestar fans. This is the place where we start from the beginning. I'm so excited my spine is glowing. *oops!*

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marymary
Nov. 14th, 2006 09:54 pm (UTC)
Seriously though, I'm such a closet geek (well, I'm out to you guys) that when I first saw the mini I immediately recognized the theme music from the original series (when they played it at the museum dedication ceremony). I actually always loved that piece.

One reaction I had when I rewatched is that I'm kinda sad for you guys who have watched part of season 3 already, and are now back at the mini-series. You're, like totally spoiled! None of the Cylon reveals will be a surprise for you. Let me tell you, when they revealed Doral and Sharon at the end, and no one knew it yet, that was something. In fact, I think I saw the Doral thing coming, cause I thought, "Ok, the big secret is who the Cylons are, and there's no 'tune in next week to find out', so they have to do something here." And I figured, since the actor playing Doral had played the innocent victim so perfectly, it would be awesome if he really were a Cylon. I think I only thought of it very near the end. But I did NOT see Sharon coming. That was really great.

Speaking of spoiling...I have a suggestion (totally up to you). Since three of you have a lot to watch, starting over from the beginning, we could actually table the Season 3 discussion until we're all caught up. If you can catch Season 3 on your Tivo or tape, and just save it, you can spend all your available time watching from the beginning. Then we'll watch/discuss the rest of Season 3 at the end. Otherwise you're certain to get more spoilers and it will also probably get a little confusing. Anyway, just a thought.
watson1
Nov. 15th, 2006 12:23 am (UTC)
Hey Mary. Just wanted to let you know that I made the jump over here. I just finished rewatching the miniseries -- God I love this show. I'll follow everyone else in terms of what they want to do -- table the season 3 discussion or try and discuss both Season 1 & 3 at the same time. I do have a question for you though. Do you know if they are showing the season straight through this year? Based on something Tommy found the other day, it appears they are running the season straight through.

And, I agree about the totally spoiled part, but even though I knew things were going to happen, I still loved the episode. Best part -- Sharon's reveal as a Cylon. When I watched it the first time, I had absolutely no idea. I also remembered a few things that I hadn't thought of since I watched it the first time -- the kid named Boxy. Hmm, a tie to the original.
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marymary
Nov. 14th, 2006 10:07 pm (UTC)
When you go back and watch a pilot, it's really all about everybody's hair, isn't it? :) Kara's is so short, Lee's got some rooster thing going on half the time, and they really haven't thought through Billy's yet.

When I watched the mini, I was most ambivalent about Starbuck. I love her character, the way she totally embodies the reckless, scary-talented pilot, but I get the feeling I wouldn't like her at all, so she kinda grates. That toothy kiss-my-ass smile. Ugh. But she grows on you.

And I had actually forgotten how well they set Helo up to be the guy we know now. As you know, a lot of series don't know what to do with the secondary characters right away --- sometimes it seems like they make up their minds partway through the first season who the guy is. But Helo is Helo from the start. When they're choosing survivors for a lift off Caprica and Helo gives Baltar his place on the raptor (nice goin' by the way), Sharon objects.

Helo: Tell me why I'm a better choice than one of the greatest minds of our time.

The next line is Sharon is freaking about ferrying the survivors herself, and leaving him behind.

Helo: You can do this. I know you can.

He's giving Sharon a pep-talk so she has the courage to leave him to certain death. *sigh* That's my boy. :)
watson1
Nov. 15th, 2006 12:37 am (UTC)
The hair didn't strike me as much as the youth. Everyone seemed so young compared to what they do now. I thought of that immediately when I saw the Chief and Apollo.

First impressions of Starbuck -- didn't like her at all. I wanted her to accept Tigh's apology, because it took a lot for him to apologize. You know, start again. Not Starbuck -- now I see that's perfectly consistent with the character. But when I saw it the first time and again today -- I still wanted her to say okay, let's start again.

About the Helo/Baltar scene on Caprica -- one thing I had forgotten is that Baltar was going to stay on Caprica. Because I am so used to him being self-centered, I thought that he was going to take that elderly woman's paper and pretend that he had the 47 instead. It was almost a shock to me when he did the right thing, and said the paper was hers.

And you're right, they did a very good job setting Helo up from the beginning. Primarily concerned about others, wants to do the right thing, very supportive of Sharon. I love me some Helo.
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marymary
Nov. 14th, 2006 11:35 pm (UTC)
Talking to myself some more:

- When Lee arrives on the Galactica, the recapper says something like, "Chief exposits that this is Adama's son, which is totally necessary, cause Edward James Olmos must have married the whitest woman in Liverpool."

- I love the shape of Colonial One. (Also loved when the pilot Duallaed over to Galactica..."this is Colonial 787 Heavy...er, Colonial One... *Roslin smiles*) Anyway, it looks vaguely regal and female to me, like a sphinx or something.

- The press corps survived the holocaust. heh.

- One of my favorite lines from Six, to Baltar: "You have a clarity of spirit. You're not bothered by conscience, guilt and regret."

- I love Lee's face when Kara does that totally insane thing hooking their vipers together to bring him home. Lee: "We're coming in a little hot, don't you think?" Yes, Lee, I DO think. ;)

This is one of many brother/sister-but-we're-not-REALLY-so-we-could-totally-just-do-it-right-here-on-the-hangar-deck-floor moments between those two. One of the best being in the next episode, "33".

- Sweet Lee/Bill moment as they strategize with Tigh: "My father's right." And the little look between them. Aw.
watson1
Nov. 15th, 2006 01:07 am (UTC)
This is one of many brother/sister-but-we're-not-REALLY-so-we-could-totally-just-do-it-right-here-on-the-hangar-deck-floor moments between those two. One of the best being in the next episode, "33".

Ah, the UST between Apollo and Starbuck. Haven't seen much of that this year.
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marymary
Nov. 14th, 2006 11:41 pm (UTC)
Ok, just one more. I know it's not the mini, but this is Jacob's synopsis of the latest ep on the main TWoP page:

You Got Your Chocolate In My War Crimes!
Battlestar Galactica - You got your martial hypocrisy in my peanut butter! It's an ethical freakout dance party as one side dabbles in sexy torture and the other starts on biological warfare and reciprocal genocide. Nobody looks good, this week, but everybody at least looks beautiful.


ha!
tomfoolery815
Nov. 15th, 2006 12:25 am (UTC)
I immediately recognized the theme music from the original series (when they played it at the museum dedication ceremony).
Me, too. Memory as it connects to music is a remarkable thing. :-)

there's no 'tune in next week to find out', so they have to do something here."
That was a well-done reveal: Multiple Sixes, Dorals and Leobens -- which, of course, was a revelation at that point -- and then ... "There is a sleeper Cylon on Galactica, and it's SHARON."

No 'tune in next week' was obviously a factor with Lee and Roslin as well. Several minutes went by there without any sign of them.

Yeah, Starbuck. She's an interesting character. Twelve minutes in, we've established she's a jerk. But then she's also spiritual, praying for Lee when he seems dead, then confessing to him (labelling it as such) what she sees as his role in his brother's death.

And then there's the rakish charm.
CHIEF: ... how you managed to fly this thing, much less land it.
STARBUCK: Not something I want to think about right now.

I, frankly, was bored with the combat stuff at the end ... until it came to Starbuck rescuing Apollo. There's Lee's "Oh, NO" when he realizes what she's about to do. Then ...

LEE: Comin' in a little hot, don'tcha think?
STARBUCK (wide-eyed): No ...

But then she's just an ass to Tigh when he's ready to bury the hatchet. She cites his flaws, but shows no sign of recognizing any in herself. So ... performance is still paramount, and you shouldn't expect normal behavior from those who risk their lives for you, Civilian -- a point that is made on a weekly basis on "Rescue Me," and was made in the "We stand on a wall" speech in "A Few Good Men" -- but she gives you as many reasons to dislike her as to like her.
tomfoolery815
Nov. 15th, 2006 12:28 am (UTC)
And clearly I left, came back and posted without refreshing. Seeing as how I cited "comin' in a little hot," too. :-)
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tomfoolery815
Nov. 15th, 2006 12:32 am (UTC)
Sweet Lee/Bill moment as they strategize with Tigh: "My father's right." And the little look between them. Aw.
I see now that Season 3 Lee/Bill ARE in a considerably better place, since our impression of Lee begins with him blaming his dad for his brother's death. Then there's ...

BILL: Is your ship all right?
LEE: We're both fine, thanks for asking.
(And 17 people know it, too.)

But then, I suppose the apocalypse will help you get over some of your daddy issues. :-)
ok_with_that
Nov. 19th, 2006 02:13 am (UTC)
But then, I suppose the apocalypse will help you get over some of your daddy issues. :-)

No doubt. (Although with *this* show... ;)

Still... Bill stumbled into the start of that exchange with an uncertain "Are you...?," before his --- sense of the emotional distance between them, maybe? or his discomfort with the idea of being overwhelmed in that moment by his own reaction to potentially losing Lee, maybe? or --- his greater familiarity with being a commander (and their need to get on with dealing with the attack) had him pull back to "... is *your ship* all right?"

So Lee's reaction has some knee-jerk annoyed bravado to it, but also a slightly-but-not-completely-buried sort of grudging acknowledgment. To me, he plays it a little as though he knows putting the emphasis on the annoyance is unfair... As in

I heard you, and I accept that you care, but I don't exactly know what to do with it right now, so we'll do as men do, here, OK?

Less righteous anger than 17 People for me. More casually-implied-tentative-baby-step rapprochement and mutual in-the-moment avoidant denial.

If *that* makes any sense, LOL.

(Working my way through everyone's comments here, making notes.... ;)
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anatolealice
Nov. 15th, 2006 12:37 am (UTC)
Mary, I need a new show. I like Doctor Who. Will I like Battlestar Galactica?

Also where do I start?
anatolealice
Nov. 15th, 2006 12:41 am (UTC)
Gosh, could I have been any more abrupt! Manners seemed to have vanished :-( Sorry about that.
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tomfoolery815
Nov. 15th, 2006 12:40 am (UTC)
One of my favorite lines from Six, to Baltar: "You have a clarity of spirit. You're not bothered by conscience, guilt and regret."
Every time I have seen Baltar so far, I find myself thinking of the word "sniveling." Six says he has "an amazing capacity for self-deception." No argument here. But then, I've heard it said that you shouldn't expect normal behavior from genius. If anyone gives credence to this idea, it's Gaius Baltar, isn't it?

I loved when he got caught by Doral having sex in his head with Six. "You look flushed, sir." No kidding. :-)

Gaius also, entertainingly, is a bad actor in carrying out the frame job on Doral. But once he has pulled off the frame job, it's THEN that Six starts nibbling on his ear. In his head. I mean, we all like the feeling of validation, but Baltar manages to enjoy it in a completely creepy way. "Getting off in a sex-type way with Chip Six," as Jacob put it. :-)
watson1
Nov. 15th, 2006 01:29 am (UTC)
Every time I have seen Baltar so far, I find myself thinking of the word "sniveling." Six says he has "an amazing capacity for self-deception." No argument here. But then, I've heard it said that you shouldn't expect normal behavior from genius. If anyone gives credence to this idea, it's Gaius Baltar, isn't it?

Sniveling is definitely an appropriate word to apply to Baltar. It's not just his actions, but his expressions. He just looks so weak at times -- like he really wants to start saying "please, please, I didn't mean it, it's not my fault."

Gaius Baltar is definitely an odd character -- and viewed as such by other characters on the show. You'll catch more of that later on in the series -- but you can definitely see how they are starting to view him already.

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watson1
Nov. 15th, 2006 01:00 am (UTC)
What about the differences in the way Adama and Apollo treat Roslin initially, and her concerns for the rest of the fleet?

After Doral went to Lee and basically asked him to take control of the ship and lead, Lee listened to Roslin and deferred to her because he recognized that she was in control -- thereby recognizing the authority of the civilian government over the military. And also because he felt it was important to try to save everyone they could.

Adama on the other hand, was not quite so accepting of Roslin. Was it because he felt less deferential towards civilian leadership overall, but particularly in a time of war? Or was it because he knew that she was 43rd in the line of succession, so he didn't respect her. He did end up acknowledging that she was right and that jumping in an attempt to save humanity was the best course of action, but he is definitely unwilling to give up control of the military to her.
tomfoolery815
Nov. 15th, 2006 01:50 am (UTC)
Adama on the other hand, was not quite so accepting of Roslin. Was it because he felt less deferential towards civilian leadership overall, but particularly in a time of war? Or was it because he knew that she was 43rd in the line of succession, so he didn't respect her.
The latter, I say. He says to his son, "You're taking orders from a schoolteacher?" Umm, no, Bill, he's taking orders from YOUR boss.

In TWW, Donna says someone in a situation stepping up is comparable to the secretary of agriculture (I think) saying "I'm ready to assume the presidency should the 18 people ahead of me die." Well, in Roslin's case the 42 people ahead of her DID die. Of all people, you'd think the new commander of the Colonial fleet -- because all the officers senior to him died -- would recognize that.

He did end up acknowledging that she was right and that jumping in an attempt to save humanity was the best course of action, but he is definitely unwilling to give up control of the military to her.
Yeah, I can't decide, when Tigh says "In case you haven't heard, there's a war on," if that makes him Bush, Rumsfeld or Cheney.

To Adama's credit, he recognizes -- as he spots Dualla and Billy making googly eyes at each other -- that Roslin is spot-on in her assessment. War over and lost, survival now. (But I did like Tigh's reply when Bill says it's time to make babies: "Is that an order?" :-) ) There does seem to be the stereotypical military contempt for civilian leadership ... which, assuming the Colonial Constitution equivalent is like ours, overlooks the minor detail that the president is the commander-in-chief.
watson1
Nov. 15th, 2006 02:13 am (UTC)
The latter, I say. He says to his son, "You're taking orders from a schoolteacher?" Umm, no, Bill, he's taking orders from YOUR boss.

Good point Tommy. I'd have to watch the scene again, but I don't think Roslin even flinched when she heard that over the radio. She was not surprised by Adama's reaction. Lee on the other hand, doesn't have the disrespect of civilian leadership that you see among many military officers.

Of all people, you'd think the new commander of the Colonial fleet -- because all the officers senior to him died -- would recognize that.

You'd think that, but maybe it just illustrates his disdain for civilian leadership. It'd be interesting to see how he would have interacted with the initial president, to see if the attitude would be apparent there as well.

And, I agree with your statement that Adama realized that Roslin was right. The war was over and lost, and they should focus on survival. It's also interesting how, at the end, he admits to her that he lied about knowing where Earth was. By the time the miniseries is over, it becomes more apparent that he is at least willing to share the leadership responsibilities with him -- as long as she doesn't try to control the military.



tomfoolery815
Nov. 15th, 2006 02:02 am (UTC)
Speaking of Roslin ... it is to Lee's credit that he is the first to recognize her as a leader. As I gun-jumpingly mentioned in the "Salvation" thread, he doesn't go where Doral expects him to go.

When Lee asks Roslin to call him Lee, she smiles sweetly and says "Captain Apollo has a nice ring to it, don't you think?" Which I take to mean: "No, we're going to keep our distance. I respect you, but we're not buddies."

I keep finding myself drawing Roslin/C.J. Cregg comparisons, which means I really like Roslin. :-) Here's another: They both present an iron fist in a velvet glove. Smoothly making clear, when confronted, that although she was 43rd in line, she's got game. And she's a strong woman, not a little girl. :-)

But there is the sense of humor, too: When Lee tells her his detonation-like gambit never worked at War College, she turns to Billy and says: "The lesson here is to not ask follow-up questions, but simply to say 'Thank you.' " Hee.
ok_with_that
Nov. 15th, 2006 03:28 am (UTC)
Hey, everybody.

I am three minutes into watching the mini, as I type.

Are you alive?

Yes.

Prove it.


I haven't read anything above this post. :P

But I can't wait to come talk about it already.

Back as soon as.... :)
marymary
Nov. 15th, 2006 04:26 am (UTC)
I agree with you guys that the difference between Lee's and Bill's initial reaction to Roslin is interesting. I think you're right about the basic reasons why. I think there are also situational differences. Bill had an agenda which was in direct conflict with hers, when they first talked. He said right, she said left. Moreover, he felt they were at war (where the military would trump the civilian) and she felt the war was over.

Lee was just presented with a complaint: "she's giving orders". He didn't have anything he was trying to achieve. He walked into the room, saw that she was doing the right things with appropriate authority, and failed to see the problem with it.

So I think they saw her differently for that reason. But they do have different attitudes toward her, at least through the first season (which you'll see).

"Captain Apollo has a nice ring to it, don't you think?" Which I take to mean: "No, we're going to keep our distance. I respect you, but we're not buddies."

I heard that differently, but you might be right. I'd have to check exactly what he said. I took him to mean, "My callsign is Apollo. My name is Lee Adama. (So you can call me Captain Adama if you want, but 'Captain Apollo' is incorrect.)" So, 1) I thought she was being her usual disarming self and kind of giving him a nickname. 2) I thought that it was a little nod to the original series, where I believe they did refer to Richard Hatch's character as "Captain Apollo". But, 3) later, at least one other person (Chief) calls Lee "Captain Apollo". So I was left thinking that her way of addressing him had sort of caught on. Unless I'm wrong about the whole thing. :)
tomfoolery815
Nov. 15th, 2006 04:41 am (UTC)
I went back. Here's a transcription, because I'm reportorial like that:

LEE: And, sir? ... Apollo's just my call sign. My name's Lee Adama.
ROSLIN: I know who you are ... "Captain Apollo" has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

Mary, your interpretation is probably right, and I'm just beginning to get a handle on these characters. It just feels, to me, like she's smiling sweetly while putting her arms up and saying "We'll stick to ranks and titles."
marymary
Nov. 15th, 2006 04:49 am (UTC)
Yeah, leave it to you. :)

You might be right...who knows? My first reaction was that she was being cute and, in fact, overly familiar, because she felt that she'd found such an unexpected and fantastic ally in him. Then, my second reaction was that maybe she was actually slightly embarassed at her faux pas. (Cause "Captain Apollo" is like calling me "Mrs. Mary" or something.) But Roslin is nothing if not complex, so maybe she was trying to create distance for some reason.
tomfoolery815
Nov. 15th, 2006 04:52 am (UTC)
I think there are also situational differences. Bill had an agenda which was in direct conflict with hers, when they first talked. He said right, she said left. Moreover, he felt they were at war (where the military would trump the civilian) and she felt the war was over. Lee was just presented with a complaint: "she's giving orders".
Fair point, Mary. Bill was marking his territory.

The first Lee-Roslin moment could have just as easily been mere character exposition, to show a military officer respecting Roslin's assertion of her authority, despite the fact that most people had no idea who she was and Doral thought she was ill-suited or unworthy of the job.

At that point in the miniseries, Laura was already demonstrating that she knew what needed to be done. But perhaps the creators (small C, hee) wanted to show somebody respecting her authority, and Lee was the right character for the job. :-)
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