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My favorite Faux Space Family begins its trek across wherever. Let's talk about:

- 33
- Water
- Bastille Day

Jacob never recapped this season, so there's a dearth of pith and wisdom out there and I feel like we can fix that. (Plus, "dearth of pith"? That was fun to say.)

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ok_with_that
Nov. 25th, 2006 04:25 pm (UTC)
So...

smiles up from under lashes

Is there a moratorium here against listening to the commentaries? ;)

I caved and listened to the one for 33. (I'm a process junkie. I have only so much willpower. :)

They're talking about micromoments that layer texture into the portrayal of the story, and they mention Adama talking to Tigh in his quarters, standing over the sink, shaving:

"This little moment here, where he cuts himself... and the foreshadowing, if you will, of Adama cutting himself and the sort of horror that's going to ensue..."

They admit they saw it as a reference to Donald Sutherland in Don't Look Now.

I went right to Bartlet's missing scene in the teaser to Posse Commitatus.
marymary
Nov. 25th, 2006 04:35 pm (UTC)

GIP

They admit they saw it as a reference to Donald Sutherland in Don't Look Now.
I went right to Bartlet's missing scene in the teaser to Posse Commitatus.


hmm, interesting. I LOVE commentary tracks, but I haven't listened to these yet.

Is there a moratorium here against listening to the commentaries? ;)

Of course not; you do what you want, honey! As long as we get around to discussing Season Two sometime before I'm dead. : ) I feel like we're picking up steam though, right?
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ok_with_that
Nov. 25th, 2006 04:32 pm (UTC)
And mary?

I'm wrestling a little with the "overarching themes" issue now. :)

One of the things that has me taking my time in posting is trying to find ways to talk about how it all links together across episodes...

As if: Is it time for a Themes thread? ;)
marymary
Nov. 25th, 2006 04:37 pm (UTC)
Well, I think we're already talking about them right here, so my bias is to leave it all in one discussion. I find that I flip back and forth between moments and scenes and themes anyway.
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marymary
Nov. 25th, 2006 11:38 pm (UTC)
Bastille Day

Screw it, I'm starting Bastille Day. : )

You can see the beginnings of Lee’s alignment with Roslin here, and a furthering of the mom and dad thing with Roslin and Adama. Lee’s suggestion backs up Roslin’s position. Bill’s pissed.

Bill says to Lee: “Every man has to decide for himself which side he’s on.” Here we go with the MAN stuff again! Good for Lee for not appearing to swallow that. He doesn’t accept the premise of the question.  “I didn’t know there were sides.”

At the end, Lee is arguing with both Roslin and Adama about the solution he’d reached with Zarek. Roslin comes around to Lee’s position first, and you can see a very slight smile creeping into her expression. Lee: “I swore an oath to defend the Articles…” Roslin gives a rueful smile, for real. Roslin, to Bill: “He’s your son.” Bill: “He’s your advisor.” Then Laura tucks Lee in to bed while Bill takes out the garbage. And what a smile on Lee after that conversation. So proud of himself and so tickled that he won them both over.

Roslin confesses to Lee about the cancer. Bringing him closer. Lee: “You can count on me.” Laura, with the sweetest, saddest smile ever: “I know I can.” (cutely) “You’re Captain Apollo!”


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Re: Bastille Day - tomfoolery815 - Nov. 26th, 2006 12:12 am (UTC) - Expand
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marymary
Nov. 25th, 2006 11:39 pm (UTC)
Not for nothin’, but they have Zarek describe the god, Apollo.
• Son of Zeus --- duh.
• Master of archery --- Fighter pilot. (“Good hunting!”) Takes out rapists. Check.
• God of healing, order and harmony. Seeks to forgive his father and himself; brokers a deal that saves the hostages, the fleet, and arguably the democracy; values the “Articles” above all else.

Zarek asks, “Have you picked a side yet?” Lee doesn’t believe that there should be sides. He’s certainly not rejecting his father. But if he has to choose, he gravitates toward Roslin (his mother, emotions, politics, order, democracy) here.
tomfoolery815
Nov. 26th, 2006 12:17 am (UTC)
ZAREK: “big hit”
LEE: “You weren’t. The book was banned. I read it anyway.”
Lee’s a pluralist, open-minded, but he can be seduced.

Terrorists and freedom fighters seduce their new recruits. “Have you decided which side you’re on?” Lee's hearing a lot of this lately, hasn't he?

Zarek, heartbroken: “You put him in a cage. You did this to him.” Lee, as a military officer, is The Man holdin’ the people down. Zarek might have a point. Treat a man like an animal, locking him in a cage, he may turn into an animal.

I'm not saying it excuses rape, not for one second. But I think it can explain it. Mary, I think the reverse of your template idea above in re: Sharon might be true, too.
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marymary
Nov. 25th, 2006 11:41 pm (UTC)
It was a kick, the first time around, to see Richard Hatch playing opposite “Captain Apollo”. I think he did a great job in this role.

Great moments:

• Helo, giving Sharon, the CYLON, a pep-talk on Caprica. “We’re doin’ good! Real good.”
• Baltar and ChipSix talking to Adama about the Cylon detector project. I love that whole scene (with one exception). Baltar goes off the plan --- he confesses to Adama that he can’t build the detector --- and Six gets rough with him, and finally has to say, “Repeat what I say!” And he does; he says there is one thing he could try. And he gets to the nuclear warhead part. And it comes out of his mouth and then she says, “Figure out the rest for yourself.” And he DOES, and because he’s a genius it’s plausible and it works! The part I hate? Tricia Helfer says “nucular”. (Pet Peeve Number One with me.) And I say Tricia Helfer says it, and not Six, because a robot would never be stupid enough to say “nucular.”
• Lee strips the guard of his gun and takes out the rapist. ‘boom-boom! boom!” Awesome.
• Chief, to Callie in sick-bay. “That’s my girl.” Indeed!
tomfoolery815
Nov. 26th, 2006 12:25 am (UTC)
Baltar and ChipSix talking to Adama about the Cylon detector project. I love that whole scene
Me, too. :-)

BALTAR: “ … is a nuclear” (looks in amazement at Chip Six) … “warhead.”

CHIP SIX: “Figure out the rest for yourself.”
Apparently, girlfriends that exist only in your head tell you, in effect, to “man up” once in a while.

I know this "be a man" stuff is irritating to you, Mary, but I think it's present in this moment, too. Because Chip Six exists in his subconscious, she's going to say the things that a man would have a woman say. I think this is all the more likely in the case of Gaius Baltar: Shorter than average, physically slight, brains (however substantial) rather than brawn.

He tells himself that he's above all the macho nonsense, but he knows there's a notion of what a man is, and that in many ways he's not it. So, to me, it's definitely there when she says "Figure out the rest for yourself."

Because he's also being asked: "Which side are you on?"
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tomfoolery815
Nov. 26th, 2006 01:02 am (UTC)
Stuff I liked or found interesting:

-- Tigh’s breakfast of champions: It makes him charming and a charismatic leader, but both the Chief and Kara can smell it on him.

-- In the middle of the power struggle between Roslin and Adama, combined with “Whose son are you, anyway?” ... here’s Billy, angling for a night out with the girl he likes. On a prison ship.

Later, imprisoned, Dualla says: “Nice to get out of the CIC, break up the day, meet new people.”

-- Laura concealing her illness. Oh! Now Billy’s going to have to go testify before Congress and risk revelation of humiliating personal details.

-- DORAL: Parents have to die. It’s the only way children come into their own.

-- Hey look, Starbuck has her own Mini-Me. She’s not without her smart-ass charm.

-- The Kara and Saul scene that is the converse of the one at the end of the miniseries. Kara pours Saul a drink; he
sniffs it first, as if checking for foreign substance.

KARA: “I have my flaws, too.”
SAUL: “The difference is – my flaws are personal, yours are professional.” And Kara nearly chokes on her water.
marymary
Nov. 26th, 2006 02:47 am (UTC)
-- Hey look, Starbuck has her own Mini-Me. She’s not without her smart-ass charm.

Who's that?

... here’s Billy, angling for a night out with the girl he likes. On a prison ship.

ha! Yeah. Billy. He's looking around for a daisy to pick and give to her. He's got a touch of George in him, just so you know. :) Not really in a bad way....
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tomfoolery815
Nov. 26th, 2006 07:24 am (UTC)
See that's what's so great about ChipSix:
- If she's Baltar's creation, she's there to help him survive and deal with what he's done.
- If she's a projection or plant from the Cylons, she's there to get him to act on the Cylons' behalf and bring about the downfall of humanity.
- If she's an angel of God, she's there to help him save God's people, the Cylons, and his soul in the process.

Have you picked a side yet? (I haven't.)


As to who I'm more sympathetic toward? Which side I would fight with or for?
marymary
Nov. 26th, 2006 07:27 am (UTC)
No, sorry. Bad reference. I meant have you decided who/what you think ChipSix is yet? I haven't.
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tomfoolery815
Nov. 26th, 2006 07:38 am (UTC)
Well, if she was Baltar's creation, I think she'd be a lot more forthcoming with the ChipSex. Nor would she be quite so demanding. It seems like he would want ChipSix to just give him the answers he seeks. Although he does have enough self-loathing -- having been a pawn in the apocalypse and all -- to have her, or let her, serve as his conscience. That only the beautiful woman can keep him on task.

I lean toward projection or plant from the Cylons. She successfully manipulated him in the devastating assault on Caprica, and they know what kind of hold Six has over him. Which means he's useful to the Cylons right where he is.

Angel of God? Possibly. But that means accepting that God wants those that created his people to be destroyed. Which is a drastically different vision of God than the one we RL humans have. Not impossible, just difficult to wrap my head around.

So I have my inclination, but no ... I haven't made up my mind. Still gathering evidence. :-)
marymary
Nov. 26th, 2006 05:31 pm (UTC)
She could be Baltar's creation, but a caricature of Caprica Six, not just a Six who acts as he wishes she would act. A very elaborate answer to "what would she say if she were here?" He knows a little bit of Caprica Six's faith, her agenda, and her manner with him. If he extrapolates that into a figment, she'd be on the same course, but a "broader" character. And their thoughts/words would blend together kind of seamlessly, like in the scene where Baltar proposes using nuclear material for the Cylon detector.

But that means accepting that God wants those that created his people to be destroyed.
Right, that's the problem. We wouldn't think God would want all humans dead. Would God want all Cylons dead? At this point, is Laura Roslin on the side of God? (heh. Maybe Helo is the Angel of God. Oop! I think I've just been "saved". : )

(My bad: I think I'm speculating too much for Season One, Episode Three, as I suggested we try not to do. *buttons lip until Thread Two.*)
phla
Jul. 9th, 2007 12:33 am (UTC)
I watched these three eps, and I find myself going back to 33, where all the pilots(?) touch that picture and say stuff like "God speed" "Keep us safe" "Never forget." Is that just some generic "9/11"-ish picture of no one in particular? I'm not supposed to know who that is, right?

I also like how they cut the corners off of everything. It makes me laugh a little, like "They're so smart in the future, they figured out that corners are sharp and might poke you in the eye, so they got rid of them all."

I think of really stupid things.
amycurl
Sep. 24th, 2008 03:34 am (UTC)
they figured out that corners are sharp and might poke you in the eye, so they got rid of them all."

BWHAHAH! No paper cuts in this world, eh? Also--very complicated printing presses, which I guess survived the attack. You know, the Kinko's/FedEx/UPS Store ship..... ;)
kaprin02
Jul. 9th, 2007 01:02 pm (UTC)
I also like how they cut the corners off of everything
I watched one of the bonus featurettes or a commentary (I don't remember which it was in) and they said it started as a joke because they were always trying to find a way to "cut corners" but in the end it just made things more complicated/expensive because they had to then cut the corners off everything.

I think of really stupid things.
They are not stupid things!
tomfoolery815
Jul. 9th, 2007 05:33 pm (UTC)
They are not stupid things!
Exactly, Kaprin. Phla, as I was just telling Kaprin next door, numerous and varying perspectives enhance everybody's experience. Four eels. :-)

they were always trying to find a way to "cut corners" but in the end it just made things more complicated/expensive because they had to then cut the corners off everything.
I had not watched that featurette. (I was Netflixing, and in a hurry to catch up.) But that is ironic, isn't it? :-)
watson1
Jul. 9th, 2007 10:29 pm (UTC)
Is that just some generic "9/11"-ish picture of no one in particular? I'm not supposed to know who that is, right?

Phla -- I don't remember the specific picture that you're referring to, but I also don't remember having a specific reaction to the picture when I watched the episode. So, yes, I think it's just a generic picture reminscent of 9/11.

And it's not stupid -- in fact, I'm not sure that I ever realized consciously that they cut the corners off things. *Note to self: Look for that next time I watch an episode. :)*
elinorigbe
Jul. 27th, 2008 02:35 am (UTC)
Are you still on Water, or is that the next thread? I wish I knew how to enlarge the type size on these pages, because, corners or no corners, I'm going blind here.

Guess I'll check the next entry, and then come back here.
elinorigbe
Jul. 27th, 2008 02:46 am (UTC)
OK, about the water issue. Have any of you read "Stranger in a Strange Land"? I think it's Arthur C. Clarke. Late 50's early 60's sci-fi tome, about a Martian who comes to Earth as a savior. Elegant, sentimental piece, in which water is a sacrament (seeing how arid Mars is). "Sharing water" is as intimate an act as sex.

Anyway, a lot of the scenes in "Water" reminded me of the intent and impact of that novel. I wondered if it was an intentional comparison.

And the cornerless pages look really strange coming out of the copier/fax transmission machines on the Gallactica.
marymary
Jul. 27th, 2008 03:03 pm (UTC)
Hey, elinor! I'm so glad you're watching and that you're coming here to comment!

Yes, I have read "Stranger" and I hadn't made that connection. Very interesting!
eloriekam
Aug. 27th, 2008 04:56 am (UTC)
About the picture, which later appears on Colonial One, I could be crazy, but I think it's a picture taken on Tauron during the attacks, and the pilots give a copy of it to Roslin. More when I get to the last disc of season 1. (I don't usually hallucinate deleted scenes, but it's been known to happen on occasion. Like when Apollo and Starbuck--never mind.)
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