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Where things get squishy, including my heart.

- Act of Contrition
- You Can't Go Home Again
- Litmus

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( 92 comments — Leave a comment )
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tomfoolery815
Nov. 27th, 2006 04:59 am (UTC)
Well, now I don't have to ask when the next thread starts. :-)
marymary
Nov. 27th, 2006 05:03 am (UTC)
Jesus Christ, are you just always refreshing?

Ok, I was just about to say that I'm just opening it -- we don't have to go gangbusters yet. I'd be comfortable moving at an episode a day, but if that's too fast we can do every other day or something.

Also, let's try "add comment" instead of "reply" (a la TWoP and Keytus) and see how it goes. I'm really having trouble even reading the thread lately, when it collapses the replies. Sometimes I can tell there's a few new comments, and I can't even find them! :) We can just copy and italicize each others comments when we want to reply to something, is that ok?
tomfoolery815
Nov. 27th, 2006 05:06 am (UTC)
Sorry. I'm enthusiastic, that's all. I was looking to see if anybody had added to the first Season 1 thread, and there was the second. I'll wait.
marymary
Nov. 27th, 2006 05:10 am (UTC)
No, it's fine. : ) I was just laughing because I literally opened the thread and immediately went to add the comment to kick it off, and you were there already! Just wild timing.
marymary
Nov. 27th, 2006 05:08 am (UTC)
Act of Contrition
Also, Tom, Christina has requested that we (ok, I) don't make every single point that there is to make before she even gets here. :) (My problem is that I sit on the comments for days and then just dump them in.) But I promised I'd space them out a little bit, so she can get a word in. Sound good? I'm going to bed very soon anyway.

So, Act of Contrition:
Maybe the sibling thing between Kara and Lee tickles me more than other people, I don’t know. But I loved the moment where Adama walks in on them painting the “1000” on the helmet. They’re goofing around and spill the red paint. (Yeah, blah, blah, symbolism cakes.) Bill: “Somebody’s going to have to pick this up.” Kara and Lee both point red painted fingers at each other and giggle.
ok_with_that
Nov. 27th, 2006 05:13 am (UTC)
Hey there, you two. :)

I agree about the nested replies, mary.

But on the refreshing front: I'm tracking thread replies, so everything shows up in my e-mail, as anyone posts, too. It's been working fairly well...

Putting Act of Contrition back in the machine...

(GIP for you, for giving us a place to play...:)
marymary
Nov. 27th, 2006 05:18 am (UTC)
(I'm only using "reply" for completly insignificant stuff. Like to say that I love that icon and I tried to size the same image down to the best bits, but LJ wouldn't let me. It might be jealous, hard to say.)
(no subject) - ok_with_that - Nov. 27th, 2006 05:40 am (UTC) - Expand
ok_with_that
Nov. 27th, 2006 05:22 am (UTC)
Also, Tom, Christina has requested that we (ok, I) don't make every single point that there is to make before she even gets here. :)

Of course what I *meant* to say was,

OMG! Mary! It's fracking *amazing* how much of the same things we seem to see in these episodes! It's like you're reading my *mind!* And then *typing* everything I'm *thinking*! How are you so *fast* at it? You're spooking me!

;P
marymary
Nov. 27th, 2006 05:25 am (UTC)
Hey, you, I thought it was clear from my tone that you had a good point! Is my tone on the fritz?

You know what's spooking me? Phantom comments.
(no subject) - ok_with_that - Nov. 27th, 2006 05:33 am (UTC) - Expand
marymary
Nov. 27th, 2006 05:33 am (UTC)
I just love the way a viper moves. Those flippy flips make me weak in the knees.
marymary
Nov. 27th, 2006 05:45 am (UTC)

Ok, you guys post whatever you want and I'll read and respond in the morning. Goodnight!
tomfoolery815
Nov. 27th, 2006 03:30 pm (UTC)
Nice icon. :-)
tomfoolery815
Nov. 27th, 2006 04:37 pm (UTC)
You know what's spooking me? Phantom comments.
Sometimes they reappear. :-)

Kara and Lee both point red painted fingers at each other and giggle.
But it's right there in the synopsis -- be it in TV Guide, the on-screen display or the DVD. This giddy good time -- where even Bill is having a bit of fun -- will not, cannot last. Just as with Tigh, in "33," savoring the thought of extended rest … pleasure does not last for those aboard Galactica, does it? It is fleeting and illusory.

Because Lee and Kara were late to the pilots' party, they live.

BILL: “Just give them the attention and professionalism that you gave my son.”
Bill just stabbed Kara in the heart and doesn’t even know it.
marymary
Nov. 27th, 2006 04:59 pm (UTC)
Hard to say whether being late saved their lives, though it was very lucky.

Bill just stabbed Kara in the heart and doesn’t even know it.

Yeah, I think this episode is touching and also important because it shows Bill and Kara’s relationship. Up until now, you’ve never seen that kind of smile or that kind of affection from Bill. Even in the flashback to Zach’s funeral, after they’d just met, Bill holds her hand. You assume that when he found out they had been engaged, he took her on as a daughter. And their relationship has become closer in the intervening two years. The scene in his quarters --- he seems to love her and enjoy being with her. Worthwhile to note that we’ve never seen anything like this between Bill and Lee. (A thought that I came back to at the end of “Home Again”)

Lee's so horrified when he realizes what he’s let slip. Such a sweet boy. This scene was better than most of its type. Usually when the speaker is led to believe the listener might already know the secret, the setup is much weaker. In this case, Bill really did sound like he knew all about what Kara had done. He suggested volumes of communication between them, and Lee filled in the blanks logically. I think maybe Lee was also very ready to concede that Kara is closer to Bill than he is.

Also, in many scenes like that, the speaker is happy to spill the beans, once the listener realizes there's something to spill. But Lee refuses to say anything else -- he's really sorry.

The confession scene between Kara and Bill is so marvelous. Both of them crying for real. I love her argument --- “I didn’t want to be the one who crushed him.” Which is EXACTLY the wrong thing to say to Bill Adama. This character has swallowed and denied so much pain in order to be who he is and perform his role. His response: “Do your job.”

Which is not to say that she doesn’t get to him. She does, which makes the terror of losing her so much worse. You assume that there was a lot he didn’t say to Zach before he lost him, and it’s happening again.
tomfoolery815
Nov. 27th, 2006 05:23 pm (UTC)
Lee's upper jaw, maybe only on his right side, twitches when he's angry. :-)

Even in the flashback to Zach’s funeral, after they’d just met, Bill holds her hand. You assume that when he found out they had been engaged, he took her on as a daughter.
I missed the hand-holding. But I certainly agree with the assumption, so it's not surprising.

I think maybe Lee was also very ready to concede that Kara is closer to Bill than he is.
He seems much more comfortable with the father-daughter relationship, doesn't he?

But Lee refuses to say anything else -- he's really sorry.
Definitely. It is a well-done scene.

BILL: “Captain …”
LEE: “Dad, you’ll have to ask her.”
It's interesting to see them have to occasionally toggle from father/son to commander/captain.

The confession scene between Kara and Bill is so marvelous.
Word. “Reinstate the trainees … walk out of this cabin while you still can.” She’s devastated. And he’s barely in control.

I didn't see tears in Bill's eyes. (I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I didn't see them. Behind the glasses, I guess. And I can't check because I returned that disc. Dammit. :) ) I thought it was terrifically minimalist acting by EJO; you only see (if you don't see the tears) the twitching of his Adam’s apple.

She needed forgiveness, and he’s not ready to give it.

You assume that there was a lot he didn’t say to Zach before he lost him, and it’s happening again.
Definitely. He knows that the way he handled that confessional moment drove her into those all-but-suicidal tactics with the Viper. Which get her shot down. It's Bill's guilt that informs everything that happens in the next episode.
marymary
Nov. 27th, 2006 07:44 pm (UTC)
It's interesting to see them have to occasionally toggle from father/son to commander/captain.

Yeah, I thought about that too. The naming and pronouning is something they seem to use in this show. Adama uses 'son' with Lee when he wants to use/reinforce their bond, but he also uses it with others and you can usually see why. Lee rarely calls Bill "Dad", so it's even more effective when he does. (He usually uses "Sir", which is kind of a middle ground.) Also the aforeposted "Captain Apollo" thing, by Roslin.

When they speak about the Cylons, it's useful to listen to who uses "her" vs. "it", etc. Sometimes (as in Flesh and Bone, coming up) they actually have a conversation about it, but mostly it's just something you pick up as an individual bias.

On Bill and Lee: I thought the ready room scene was good if you're still trying to characterize them (which they are, it being episode 4). After the accident, Lee addresses the pilots. “We all feel terrible. I don’t know if anything will make it better.” Bill comes in and basically says, “Suck it up, the fleet needs you. What’s next?”
tomfoolery815
Nov. 27th, 2006 08:03 pm (UTC)
Lee rarely calls Bill "Dad", so it's even more effective when he does. (He usually uses "Sir", which is kind of a middle ground.)
I wonder if that is middle ground. We often see it characterized -- I think this is true in RL -- that sons of military men address their fathers as "Sir." Either the father demands it, or the sons pick it up at some point and the father likes it.

I suspect that little Lee called his father "Daddy," then, around 6 or 7, decided to start addressing him as "Sir," then felt more or less obligated to use "Sir," especially as he went from teenager to cadet; in the latter instance you can see young Lee not wanting the other cadets to think he's getting special treatment, and/or Bill insisting that it be that way.

I think, at this stage in their relationship -- although there's a big, beautiful breakthrough upcoming -- "Sir" is in Lee's comfort zone. "Dad" is much harder for him to say. Tellingly, he uses it when he tells his father he's going to have ask his "daughter."

After the accident, Lee addresses the pilots. “We all feel terrible. I don’t know if anything will make it better.” Bill comes in and basically says, “Suck it up, the fleet needs you. What’s next?”
This is Lee's nascent, inner Roslin in action, I think. Whether Bill recognizes it as specifically this, he doesn't like it too much, does he?
marymary
Nov. 27th, 2006 08:10 pm (UTC)
I know people who call their fathers "sir" even though they're not in the military. What I was saying is that "Commander" and "Captain" place them in terms of their ranks and in the context of the military. "Dad" and "Son" make it clear that they're talking as family. "Sir" is Lee's default --- of course it's a correct term for the commander, but it could also be seen as a more generic term of respect. I think Lee must have been accustomed to using "Dad" or he would never go back to it. But we're really wanking here, I think. : )

Lee's speech is very Lee. I didn't see Bill's speech to the pilots as a reaction to it, but maybe you're right. I assumed he came in there to say just that. I think it's what he would say, regardless of what Lee said, but I can see it the other way too.
(no subject) - elinorigbe - Jul. 27th, 2008 03:01 am (UTC) - Expand
ok_with_that
Nov. 27th, 2006 08:48 pm (UTC)
I suspect that little Lee called his father "Daddy," then, around 6 or 7, decided to start addressing him as "Sir," then felt more or less obligated to use "Sir," especially as he went from teenager to cadet; in the latter instance you can see young Lee not wanting the other cadets to think he's getting special treatment, and/or Bill insisting that it be that way.

Mrs. Landingham quirks a brow. "You call your father, 'Sir'?" ;)

After the accident, Lee addresses the pilots. “We all feel terrible. I don’t know if anything will make it better.”

This is Lee's nascent, inner Roslin in action...Tommy

Lee's speech is very Lee. mary

This is closer to what I meant the other day when I said I liked the idea that Lee finds order in emotion. It's what he seems immediately to turn to, to appeal to, and acknowledge, others in chaotic or distressing situations.

I have to go back and re-watch Bill and Kara and the admission, cuz I've only watched once so far. But what struck me when I did watch was how much Bill, in that moment, would have had to re-evaluate and rearrange in his head and his heart -- not just about his relationship with Kara, but also with Lee.

In that context, I'm a little amazed that we didn't get more fallout from Lee, when Kara first told *him.* Maybe it's yet to come (?), but given that his assumptions about fault warped his relationship with his father the way they did.... I'm just a little surprised at how calmly Lee seems to have absorbed it so far.

marymary
Nov. 27th, 2006 10:13 pm (UTC)
I agree about Lee absorbing that news. I honestly can't remember when, in future episodes, that comes up again. The fun of rewatching!
marymary
Nov. 27th, 2006 10:11 pm (UTC)
You Can't Go Home Again
I'm feeling like we're done with "Contrition" for now, no? Feel free to go back to it whenever you want...

(Anyway, before I forget: do we know that Bodie Olmos (“Hotdog”) is EJO’s son? Also, I learned, the grandson of Howard Keel! Cool.)

I LOVE Laura’s reaction when Bill says, “Frak the odds --- we’re going to find her.” She’s really taken aback and it takes a minute for her to incorporate this into her idea of him. He just lost his cool and cursed. He’s risking security for one pilot – this guy who was ok with blowing up the Olympic Carrier. She correctly assumes that there’s something emotional going on here, and at this moment she seems pleasantly surprised. As you would be, if you had a subtle mind like hers and thought you had Adama all figured out already.

Later, as she makes her point about leaving Kara behind, MM does a great job. She’s focused, as usual, but she feels his pain. She’s not saying, “Suck it up.” She’s saying, “This is a horrible thing for you, but it has to be done.”
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