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Where Starbuck finally gets her hands on Apollo's arrow.
- The Hand of God
- Colonial Day
- Kobol's Last Gleaming, 1 and 2

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marymary
Dec. 19th, 2006 04:47 am (UTC)
watson, I think you pointed this out earlier and I noticed it here --- how they do a good job of interspersing the character-driven stories (the ones that often take place in a few rooms on Galactica and Colonial One) with the Space Battle stuff. There’s a nice rhythm to it and you never get bogged down in one wishing for the other.

Anyway, Laura’s with the press corps and she sees snakes. This time, when I watched it (and through the prism of my years spent watching West Wing) I reminded myself, 'No, it’s not a metaphor."

"3600 years ago, the Oracle Pythia wrote of the exile and rebirth of the human race. She said that their leader would lead a caravan of the heavens to their new home. The gods would give this leader a vision of serpents numbering 2 and 10, as a sign of trials to come. Also, that the leader was dying of a wasting disease, and would not live to see the new home." Whoa.
watson1
Dec. 20th, 2006 01:30 am (UTC)
I think that was Tommy, not me. But, I'll happily steal credit for it -- no, not really.

Please don't bring up the visual of the snakes again -- I'm getting freaked out just thinking about it. Ugh.
marymary
Dec. 19th, 2006 04:54 am (UTC)
I just loved the strategy, the battle, and Lee's insane flying at the end.

Bill, on why Kara’s helping with strategy. "All due respect, we’re not as crazy as she is." ha.

Kara hates sitting out the battle. "I never wanted this kind of responsibility" Which is just what we were saying posting about the mini.

"Apollo. Galactica. Back door is open. Back door is open." That’s awesome, the vipers hiding in the freighter. It’s so fun to watch Roslin’s reaction to this kind of thing. She enjoys being surprised and impressed. She doesn’t have a lot of ego in it --- "Why didn’t you tell me?" "Need to know basis." "Well ok then. Go you!"

Apollo through the conveyor tunnel is so Star Wars! Really nicely done. I love the closeups of him as he does it too. The whole battle was fantastic.

Kara hugs Laura in jubilation. "Sorry, Madame President." Laura hugs Kara a second time. They are so cute together.
amycurl
Jun. 5th, 2007 08:30 pm (UTC)
I loved the double hug! But, again, I think it's because there's some recognition there. I don't think that would have happened between two guys in that room, or even between Kara and some other male. Maybe Apollo.

We can disagree on this, and still enjoy the two of them together. :-)
(no subject) - marymary - Jun. 6th, 2007 12:30 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - anatolealice - Nov. 9th, 2008 03:11 am (UTC) - Expand
tomfoolery815
Dec. 19th, 2006 05:02 am (UTC)
Where Starbuck finally gets her hands on Apollo's arrow.
Heh. More like she gets her hands on an arrow and wishes it was Apollo's.

I like the way this ep delineates the contrasting styles of Starbuck and Apollo, and I use their callsigns deliberately. :-)

Bill wants Kara to formulate a plan because she's not by-the-book, and this is definitely not a by-the-book situation. But because she's still on Injured Reserve, Lee -- who is the very model of modern Viper squad leader (damn, so close) -- has to execute her plan.
It isn't his kind of fight, and Kara is quick to point that out to him: "Don't frak it up by overthinking."
marymary
Dec. 19th, 2006 08:13 pm (UTC)
Heh. More like she gets her hands on an arrow and wishes it was Apollo's.

Well, it's not just an arrow, it is "The Arrow of Apollo". :-) I couldn't just leave that alone.

Toby: "It's like that joke is just coming at you and there's nothing you can do about it."
(no subject) - elinorigbe - Jul. 29th, 2008 06:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - tomfoolery815 - Jul. 29th, 2008 06:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - elinorigbe - Jul. 29th, 2008 06:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
tomfoolery815
Dec. 19th, 2006 05:07 am (UTC)
Apollo through the conveyor tunnel is so Star Wars! Really nicely done. I love the closeups of him as he does it too. The whole battle was fantastic.
My favorite moment of that whole sequence, and probably the whole episode, comes when Lee realizes, against his usual MO, that he's about to do a Starbuck-style improvisation: "Oh no, don't do this, Lee."

Although Kara quoting General George S. Patton (or at least Patton as portrayed by George C. Scott) -- "You magnificent bastard!" -- was pretty fun, too. :-)

They are so cute together.
That was sweet. I do enjoy Smart-Ass Kara, but Guard Down Kara is my favorite. :-)
amycurl
Jun. 5th, 2007 08:28 pm (UTC)
But, then, does Patton exist in their world?

Also, apparently: craps. Because I don't think you can roll a hard six in Pyramid can you?

These kinds of things bother me a little bit, because they're from our world, things specifically that shouldn't be in theirs.
(no subject) - tomfoolery815 - Jun. 5th, 2007 09:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
tomfoolery815
Dec. 19th, 2006 07:35 am (UTC)
It’s so fun to watch Roslin’s reaction to this kind of thing. She enjoys being surprised and impressed. She doesn’t have a lot of ego in it --- "Why didn’t you tell me?" "Need to know basis." "Well ok then. Go you!"
Yes. :-) Earlier in the ep, when they've decided upon their strategy, Laura tells Bill, Kara et. al.: "Good hunting, everyone."

This is something only the military people say, and I like what it says about Laura: That in her attempt to improve her relations with the military, she picked up a bit of the lingo. She's speaking their language, or at least enough to indicate that she's making an effort.
marymary
Dec. 19th, 2006 07:24 pm (UTC)
This is something only the military people say, and I like what it says about Laura

Good point. And Bill and Laura, even though they disagree often (especially coming up) and they have their own perspectives, are learning to respect each other. Once in a while I get a feeling that Bill's a little knee-jerk about stuff (e.g., "This is a military decision.") without thinking it through. But in general, they seem to be trying to embrace each other's point of view. And, to your point, I think Laura is particularly open to it. She's not only happy to step back and let the professionals work, she wants to demonstrate her support.

The Adamas are so sweet in this episode. The recapper noted this:
Lee: "I’ll bring it back." (the lighter)
Bill: "You’d better, or I’ll kick your ass."
Recapper says, "You’d hate the clichéd exchange, but you get the feeling Bill means it."
marymary
Dec. 19th, 2006 07:41 pm (UTC)
Baltar: "I suppose God wouldn’t want me to destroy the base because he’s the Cylon god."
ChipSix: "God doesn’t take sides. He only wants your love. Open your heart to him."

(later, after Baltar's info helped destroy the base)
Six: "You did well. You gave yourself over to him."
Baltar: "Yes, I suppose I did. There’s really no other logical explanation for it. I am an instrument of God."

Ok, first the hilarious. Baltar "gives himself" to God with such self-congratulation. This is how I heard it:

Six: "You did well."
Baltar: "I did! I'm really quite something. Again."

Baltar: "I am an instrument of God. So I've got THAT going for me. Which is nice."

Even when he's talking about God, it's all about him. About his skills and his new status as conduit of God's will. It reminds me of what Caprica Six says to him in his home, just before the nuclear explosion. She's telling him about what's about to happen and his role in the holocaust, and he says, "Who else knows?" She says something like, "Even in the face of the destruction of humanity, all you can think about is yourself."

The second thing is that I don't think I've worked out why destroying that base could possibly be part of the Cylon God's plan. Unless it's simply to raise Baltar's status and position him for the future (like ID'ing Doral did, like being cleared after Shelly's accusation did). So I can see why a figment ChipSix would tell him to help the humans and make him feel like it's ok with her. But if she's an agent, that Cylon base is a huge price to pay just to up Baltar's stock. I don't know.
tomfoolery815
Dec. 19th, 2006 07:46 pm (UTC)
The Adamas are so sweet in this episode.
Maybe it's a cliched exchange -- I'm not sure I entirely agree -- but it comes at the end of an important Bill/Lee moment, a milestone in their relationship.

Mary, you pointed out several episodes ago that, at that point anyway, that Lee sensed that Bill is closer to Kara than to him. Lee knows that this is a Starbuck kind of mission, and he's got some doubt about his ability to pull it off -- a little too declarative to Kara about executing the mission, and he and Kara both know that he is capable of overthinking, of paralysis by analysis.

It's what Bill does say in the lighter scene: Opening up to Lee, acknowledging that he feels he has his parental shortcomings. And it's what he doesn't say: He says nothing to feed Lee's self-doubt, which serves to fill him with confidence. You can see it on JB's face; when the scene ends, a fleet-sized weight has been lifted from his shoulders.
tomfoolery815
Dec. 19th, 2006 08:05 pm (UTC)
Baltar: "I am an instrument of God. So I've got THAT going for me. Which is nice."
Heh. And now I'm picturing Gaius Baltar attempting to blow up a gopher. :-)

It is always all about GB for GB. It's not for nothin' that your icon has him in a near Christ-on-the-cross pose.

I think he's actually open to the possibility that he is, in fact, an instrument of God. It makes sense when you consider that such an idea feeds his massive ego.

why destroying that base could possibly be part of the Cylon God's plan.
Perhaps the Cylons have "blind faith" as well. "We cannot possibly understand God's plan." Because, yeah, it is a helluva price to pay just to position Baltar for future success. The Cylons can all resurrect, but the base is a major asset that can't just be downloaded, obviously.

Man, just when I thought I'd been convinced that Chip Six is a figment :-) ... the agent/figment question continues to intrigue and baffle me, but in either instance a Baltar with a well-nourished ego and elevated status in the fleet benefits the Cylons.
marymary
Dec. 20th, 2006 06:41 am (UTC)
yeah, that's the ticket!
It makes sense when you consider that such an idea feeds his massive ego.

Exactly. He was like, "God's power is flowing directly through me? Yes...yes, now you're finally making some sense. Sign me up."
marymary
Dec. 19th, 2006 10:03 pm (UTC)
A Very Cylon Christmas
Apropos only of me stopping by TWoP...

Currently (S3) there's a Cylon doing a particular thing over and over. Jacob had this to say about it in his recaplet:

"Just a couple more before you qualify for that free calendar!" Twelve months of Doral looking exactly the same in every possible month, except December when he's wearing a Santa hat. I would kill for this calendar.

ha! I think we all know what calendar I'd want for Christmas. 12 months of those Colonial military muscle shirts.
tomfoolery815
Dec. 20th, 2006 02:02 am (UTC)
Re: A Very Cylon Christmas
Twelve months of Doral looking exactly the same in every possible month, except December when he's wearing a Santa hat.
BWAH! I know you can't really do a spit-take with ice cream, but I almost did just now upon reading that. :-)
marymary
Dec. 19th, 2006 10:03 pm (UTC)
January
marymary
Dec. 19th, 2006 10:04 pm (UTC)
February
watson1
Dec. 20th, 2006 04:06 am (UTC)
Getting into the prophecy issue from the episode, and things that you guys have already brought up separately, but haven't explicitly linked together.

The prophecy with the leader who sees the snakes. Laura hears about the prophecy at the beginning of the episode, after she has the experience of seeing snakes at the podium. Which then leads to the discussion with the priestess/seer about the leader dying of a wasting disease.

Chip Six brings up the same prophecy later in the episode in her discussion with Baltar (and mentions the two plus ten snakes), and then goes on to talk about the rest of the prophecy that hasn't been discussed. The outcome of the specific battle that in the words of Chip Six -- "Though the outcome favored the few." etc. etc.

Does anyone else see the religious inconsistency here? The humans who believe are polytheists, so they are obviously reading from one set of scriptures -- which the priestess/seer quoted to Roslyn.

Yet chip Six uses the same quote after the battle when discussing the outcome with Baltar. If Chip six is real, and the Cylons are monotheists, why is she quoting the same scriptual passage to Baltar that the seer quoted to Roslyn? Wouldn't she have a scriptual passage coming from a different source? Or maybe there are similar versions of the scriptures that vary in some ways -- just like there are multiple versions of the Bible out there.

If they don't rely on the same scriptural sources though, why would the humans and Cylons rely on the same scriptual source? If Chip Six is a figment, then it makes a little more sense. She is quoting what Baltar may know, assuming he has some familiarity with the scriptures even though he is an atheist. The figment then uses her knowledge to get Baltar to where she wants him to go -- that he is the "instrument of God".

Did I miss some part of the episode that explains this?

watson1
Dec. 20th, 2006 04:31 am (UTC)
And the first line in that last paragraph should be:

If humans and Cylons don't rely on the same scriptual source, why would both the priestess/seer and Chip Six use the same scriptual passage?
tomfoolery815
Dec. 20th, 2006 04:41 am (UTC)
Watsy, I think it's entirely possible the Cylons and humans would have sacred texts in common, or that they would each have an interpretation that suited their theology, as is often the case with RL humans and various versions of the Bible.

It also seems possible that, even given our unresolved figment/agent question regarding Chip Six, that both sides would accept the "two and 10 snakes" prophecy, but have radically different views of what it means.

The monotheism/polytheism conflict doesn't seem all that great, to be honest. Yes, the humans are polytheist and the Cylons are monotheist, but there are atheists among the humans and even degrees of belief among the Cylons: Leobens versus Dorals, for example.

I say this in the friendliest, most inquisitive way possible: I'm not sure why this is a stumbling block for you. :-)
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