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Where Starbuck finally gets her hands on Apollo's arrow.
- The Hand of God
- Colonial Day
- Kobol's Last Gleaming, 1 and 2

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( 128 comments — Leave a comment )
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tomfoolery815
Jan. 16th, 2007 08:56 pm (UTC)
She meets him on Kobol.
By beckoning him to rescue himself from the burning Raptor. Everyone on there was freaking out as they crash-landed -- "Watch the hill!" "Thanks a lot, Chief!" -- but they're all military. Gaius was paralyzed with fear. But Chip beckons to him, he gets out, collapses ... and there's that Christ-on-the-cross pose again.

“You are the guardian and protector of a generation of God’s children.”
I misquoted the part ahead of this quote. Chip says to GB: "It's time to do your part and realize your destiny." An important distinction, I'd say: You probably have to realize your destiny before you can fulfill it. :-)
marymary
Jan. 16th, 2007 09:26 pm (UTC)
Did the rest of you get that impression? That the metallic floors, walls and ceilings might actually be armor?

Yeah, definitely. I assume that all of them are flesh and metal at this point, except the centurions. In fact, when the brother and sister-in-law and I watched that scene, one of them wondered how she knew which "orifice" to pilot the raptor into. :)
marymary
Jan. 16th, 2007 09:33 pm (UTC)
It would seem Chip's top priority is keeping Baltar out of trouble long enough to "fulfill his destiny," without regard for other Cylon missions.

You could be right --- that is certainly a possibility. That would make her something different from what we've said before --- not a figment, existing as an elaborate defense mechanism; not a Cylon agent, manipulating Baltar to the Cylons' ends; a Cylon bodyguard, on a mission separate from the rest of the Cylons. I still don't quite get how the Cylons would deploy her to be completely independent of the rest of the Cylon mission and, therefore, free to help Baltar even if it means thwarting other Cylon objectives.

The only way that makes sense is if she's an angel of the Cylon god. Baltar's Guardian Angel. In other words, the Cylons, like humans, are interpreting God's will as best they can, and are moving toward goals that they think will acheive God's plan for them. They might, as humans do, be misunderstanding or blundering their way toward the light. So, on a given day, the Angel (ChipSix) might have a better idea of what God wants than the Cylons do.
tomfoolery815
Jan. 17th, 2007 01:38 am (UTC)
(I know I'm "replying" here, but I moved this to remove a spoiler but preserve the sequence. Hopefully, none of the newbies saw it.)

different from what we've said before --- not a figment, existing as an elaborate defense mechanism; not a Cylon agent, manipulating Baltar to the Cylons' ends; a Cylon bodyguard, on a mission separate from the rest of the Cylons.
Well, I think she could be each of the last two, an agent and a bodyguard. Kind of a super bodyguard. I know I brought the Ron Butterfield ;-), but I'm theorizing that she's an agent with a highest-priority, disregard-the-rest mission.

Killing Bill Adama would be a big victory for the Cylons, without doubt. Probably the only higher-value target among human individuals is President Roslin. But considering what Chip says at the end of this ep -- that he is "guardian and protector of the new generation of God's children" -- this is a "higher calling" kind of mission. One where Chip's mission is, regardless of any other Cylon objective, to bring Gaius Baltar and "our baby" together. That there is no higher Cylon objective.

The only way that makes sense is if she's an angel of the Cylon god.
Seems that way, doesn't it? That's what she keeps telling him.
marymary
Jan. 17th, 2007 12:04 am (UTC)
The only way that makes sense is if she's an angel of the Cylon god.

Seems that way, doesn't it? That's what she keeps telling him.


Well, that's a good point. There's a theory that she's never lied to him. So if she says she's an angel, maybe she's an angel (which is what I was saying, but had deduced instead of coming at it this way). If she did turn out to be an angel, that would be cool for me. Both because it would validate the Cylon god (more interesting than them being wrong) and because of the way she says it. He says, "Who are you?" and she says, "I'm an angel of God." Because she says it in that...way of hers, you assume she's just talking in metaphors or something, but what if she's absolutely serious? That would make me happy.
tomfoolery815
Jan. 17th, 2007 07:47 pm (UTC)
There's a theory that she's never lied to him.
I can't think of any time, to this point in the series, where she has. As we discussed a few episodes ago, she leads him in this direction or that, but I think it's always to validate her point, to convince him -- and the viewers -- that she's telling the truth.

She told him he needed to be off Galactica because something bad was going to happen. She also told him it was a surprise, doing so in her scary sexy robot girlfriend way; we know Gaius Baltar wouldn't be nearly as easily led by Chip Simon or Chip Doral.

Something bad did happen, and because Chip did not tell him what it would be, he has plausible deniability when Boomer shoots Bill. Not to mention the fact that he was down on Kobol when it happened.

If she did turn out to be an angel ... it would validate the Cylon god (more interesting than them being wrong) and because of the way she says it. He says, "Who are you?" and she says, "I'm an angel of God."?
She could very well be an angel ... or merely believe that she is. That this is her programming.

We've seen, to this point (and later), that there are degrees and shadings of belief among the Cylons. Just as among the humans, which makes the Cylons infinitely more interesting.

It brings us back to the Bill/Lee sparring discussion, in a way: It might be secondary as to whether Chip is actually an angel because she seems to believe she's an angel.

Because she says it in that...way of hers
She does have a way of saying it that makes it sound biblical, doesn't she? (Which amuses me to say, considering how sexy she dresses and looks when she says them. Not quite the way Gabriel did it.)

you assume she's just talking in metaphors or something, but what if she's absolutely serious?
Well, there's the genius of the show in general and the Chip Six construct in particular, isn't it? We end up thinking and processing right along with GB. At least we have each other with whom to knock theories around; Baltar has only himself. Little wonder he seems never far from a nervous breakdown.
tomfoolery815
Jun. 6th, 2007 01:09 am (UTC)
To go from the water hose to that dress--what more would a man ever want in a woman? Honestly, people!
Exactly, Amybabe. If I'm Lee, Kara doesn't get within shouting distance of Baltar's chambers. ;-)

I have love/lust for all the BSG women at one point or another.

Except Cally.
tomfoolery815
Jun. 6th, 2007 02:10 am (UTC)
To know that you've been lied to by someone you've trusted like that is devastating. And when given a chance to fess up, and to instead continue the lie--if Bill had come clean to her then, I think the outcome would have been different--she has no choice but to take it personally.
Well-put, Amybabe. :-)
amycurl
Jun. 6th, 2007 01:52 pm (UTC)
I was really on the side of the psychotic break idea behind the appearance of ChipSix. And now I'm back to both/and. Because, to my mind, everything that Gaius has gone through would definitely be enough to produce one in any human. And often "genius" folks are more suspect to them than some.

So, if a psychotic break initally brought on the Six in his head, could then the Cylons have taken advantage of that, with a projection as well. Because one would think they have projection technology--how else do you explain Leoben's appearance in Laura's dreams (well, I guess there's drugs and prophecy...) Ok, now i'm just confusing myself--LOL!!

Although the angel of Cylon God is an intriguing theory as well. I'll have to sit with that a little more.


amycurl
Jun. 6th, 2007 02:01 pm (UTC)
Okay, I'm going to revisit something we talked about a bit in Flesh and Bone--how Leoben knew Kara. Mary posited that it was because this model has an ability of psychic power. I still believe that--I think he planted himself into Laura's dreams, and I think he "divined" Kara's childhood--but I don't think it explains how he knew who Kara was in the first place.

Because when Kara battles with the Six on Caprica over the Arrow of Apollo--this Six, who we must think is a copy that hasn't ever even been on Gallatica--knows who Starbuck is. She calls her "Lt." and "Starbuck" at least one time each. (I know, I was paying attention for it.)

So, that leads me to think--there is some kind of collective conscious, or they've done a massive data dump, or Kara is a Cylon (which would be odd for the Six to then fight her like that...)

At this point, then, all four models that the viewers know about are now known to the humans as well. That basically takes them all out of comission right? And would Kara then know that the whole "cast of suspicion" that Godfrey put on Baius was a weird set-up the whole time, now that she's seen another Six model?

Ok. I'll leave you all alone now. :-) I'm going to rewatch with the commentaries on and watch the special features.
Heads up, though--I'll probably not get through Season 2 as fast, because of my schedule coming up and the fact that I'm going to have to Netflix it. However, should any of you want to hand deliver me Season 2, I'll do what I can. ;-)
kaprin02
Jul. 12th, 2007 01:11 am (UTC)
Ok, there is so much that's already been posted that I agree with, I'm not going to quote everything. The Lee/Kara stuff, the Kara/Adama stuff, the Laura/Adama stuff, etc.

These are the few specific things I wanted to comment on.

in the pretty blue dress and Lee is gobsmacked. So HOW does she not close that deal? - mary
Those were my thoughts exactly. And the look on Lee’s face after they dance when she starts dancing with Baltar, it’s just so pained.

Re: the sex scene: in the first scene, the man that she is with has short hair. - watz
I know the conversation about this happened like 7 months ago, but I just wanted to say that I saw the same thing as Watz and Mary, that it was Lee in the beginning. I saw the leg (which isn't hairy enough to be Baltars - he's a much hairier man than Lee) and the short hair on his head. I even went back and watched it a couple extra times, and once in frame-by-frame to make sure that it wasn't just my imagination. (copied this from an earlier post of mine, and deleted that post so all my stuff was together.)

Also, just look at his cheekbones and arm/shoulder muscles. Baltar’s (JC’s) cheekbones are just not that defined, and his arm/shoulder muscles aren’t that big or defined.
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